Question:
What does it say about our public education system that grown men and women in the US deny global warming?
GOP: Life Over-Simplified
2010-06-30 08:28:33 UTC
What does it say about our public education system that grown men and women in the US deny global warming?
26 answers:
Carson N
2010-06-30 08:40:17 UTC
ANY scientist who can for a fact say that we can ACCURATELY take the average temperature of the surface of the ENTIRE earth is very small minded.





We have no real definitive frame of refrence of what temperatures were beyond 200 years ago.....



how can you make comparisons of climate change w/ 200 years of 'questionable' data as it changes naturally every 10,000 or so years.





Accepting a theory as FACT is short sighted and ignorant. Just because some self-proclaimed climate 'expert' made a new simulaiton model based on incomplete data.
whiteflame55
2010-06-30 08:36:59 UTC
It says that people view it as a political argument instead of a scientific one. The vast majority of people who deny the existence of global warming do so on the basis of a few factors: isolated weather events, opposition to the changes involved in preventing it, opposition to the party involved in dealing with it, and a general belief that it's a conspiracy.



The isolated weather events explanation is the only one of these that's even close to scientific, but it's about as useful as a scientist going out, taking one data point, and coming back to write a research paper on it. The sun goes away at night, so therefore it must go away forever. A large snowstorm hits Washington D.C., so therefore global warming is a hoax. People don't understand the lack of knowledge that is associated with this, and to this extent, I'd say you're right on.



To the other extents, I'd say it's not a lack of education, but more the fact that people would rather listen to their gut than to scientists. Many people call out Al Gore when the man has nothing to do with whether or not the theory is correct. I don't care what he does, it doesn't affect the facts. But most people are just adamant about saying how hard it would be to shift, and while I agree that the transition is difficult, this mentality has held back renewable resource research for years. We're finally starting to get viable sources of renewable fuels, and yet most people don't even know about the successful ones (such as algal blooms that retain oil, which would reduce emissions by 75%) because they deny that anything could work. It's a political game to these people, not a scientific argument.



Edit: Alright, so I'm seeing two derivations of the arguments here that I didn't address. The first is Climategate. For those people who think Climategate is a major problem that represents the downfall of this theory, I have two responses. First, researchers went in after the Climategate scandal to investigate whether the data had actually been tampered with. It had not. There are several news sources that corroborate this. Second, even if it had been tampered with, the information doesn't reflect on the entire theory. That would be like saying that if someone decided to fabricate data on gravity, the entire theory of gravity would be disproven. And yes, gravity is a theory as well, mainly because it could also be disproven (for all we know, there are parts of the planet where gravity doesn't apply, that's why it's still a theory).



The other argument I'm seeing is the whole "we're not the ones causing this" argument, and honestly, this one's getting tiresome. There have been numerous experiments conducted in laboratories testing the effects of increasing concentrations of carbon dioxide and methane on the gasses that make up our atmosphere. There's no doubt that these two gasses are responsible for causing harm to the atmosphere. Whether you believe we're the main cause or not doesn't make a difference, the fact remains that we are a cause. The only response I've seen to this research is that we don't know the level of damage we're doing. I don't see that as a valid reason to keep increasing the amount of harmful gasses we throw into the atmosphere. Global warming is a theory, we certainly don't have all the information yet, but we have enough to know that we're certainly not making things any better.



Edit #2: Ah, some scientific responses. I've seen one good scientific response from a friend of mine that had some merit, and everyone else's has had numerous holes. Let's take a look at these:



Mathsorcerer - If the only scientific studies that had occured were those that test our atmosphere directly, you'd be right. The lack of controls makes any results impossible to interpret. Note, however, that experiments have been done testing the effect of the greenhouse gasses on the atmosphere under controlled conditions. Yes, they've been much smaller scale, but since it's controlled, the studies have a lot of merit. That's utilizing the scientific method.

In response to your question, if the atmosphere were to disappear, it would be unprecedented in the history of life on this planet. Human beings could adapt...if they were given millenia during which to do so. We don't exactly reproduce all that quickly, and therefore we don't evolve all that fast.

No, we don't believe we have a significant impact on the planet. We believe the planet has a significant impact on us. We keep doing what we're doing and it will kill us off just like so many other animals on this planet have died off.



DrRosenpeenis and a couple of others have tried to turn this back to politics. As I've stated before, this is not a political game. No one's presented one piece of data that's actually been fabricated. I don't care who is doing the research, I care if the research is being done correctly. 40 years ago, we didn't have the tools to do the research, so I honestly don't buy the argument that we're just changing our story.
Mathsorcerer
2010-06-30 08:50:05 UTC
Climate "science" does not follow the Scientific Method.



Where is the "control" Earth contaning absolutely no human beings against which to measure *this* Earth, the "experiment" group?



That's right--it doesn't exist. Without a control group there cannot be a proper experiment conducted with which to try and verify that a hyptothesis is correct. In this case, that hypothesis is "human beings are causing the global climate to change by warming up too much". If you cannot test the hypothesis by the Scientific Method then any results you appear to reach are faulty and prove nothing.



The other question to ask is this: why do climate alarmists think that the global climate is supposed to stay the same forever? What, should it still be like the last Ice Age or what?



Also, climate alarmists think that human beings are incapable of adaptation. Even if all the polar ice caps do melt due to *NATURAL* causes and the sea levels rise then people will move inland and adapt. Except for the alarmists, who will sit on the beach and moan about the rising sea levels.



Climate alarmists think human beings can have a significant effect on the planet. They have an extremely overinflated sense of self-importance.



kthxbai
A Modest Proposal
2010-06-30 08:33:40 UTC
These are the same people who grew up during the time when non-science sources like Time and Newsweek were scaring the world about there being an ice age. Unfortunately, there has never been the standard of peer-review in non-college schools, so this little period of time where such articles were purported in schools was a huge setback to the actual science, which was in reality much more biased to the theory of anthropogenic global warming, even then:



http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/pdf/10.1175/2008BAMS2370.1



Outside of education, you have things like climategate where the deniers get their golden opportunity to take personal emails between experts out of context. Independent investigations have turned up nothing, and virtually all of the conspiracy claims have not come to fruition, but it doesn't matter to most people:



http://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-archive/science-technology/s-t-pn32-100331/

http://www.uea.ac.uk/mac/comm/media/press/CRUstatements/SAP



All in all, it's the media and how the schools can be influenced by it. I suppose, though, that that certainly does say something about the educational system.
NONAME
2010-06-30 08:50:11 UTC
It says that with all it's numerous failures, at least it's teaching people to seek undeniable scientific proof of something before blindly following an idea just because they are told to. And, I daresay if you are actually interested in the truth that if you did a little research into all the shady and shifty maneuverings that have gone on in the global warming movement, you might just start to be a little skeptical too. Besides the fact that over 40% of the accredited climatologists in this country are very unsure as to the nature or existence of global warming, there is also the blatant doctoring of scientific studies that were explained as "oversights" AND the fact that the people who stand to profit so greatly from the institution of ecological requirements are the SAME people who asserted that "global COOLING" was going to destroy the earth 40 years ago. Oh, and the fact that Roger Revelle, the man who first postulated the theory of CO2 induced global warming recently came to the conclusion that his findings were wrong and with modern science he was able to determine that man's CO2 production had nothing to do with any of the warming trends he once found. I am a pretty liberal thinking person, but I am VERY skeptical of whether global warming actually exists worldwide and if it does I am skeptical that it is not just a natural ebb and flow in climate. Look into it- there are thousands of people much smarter than you OR me that deny global warming.
Karma of the Poodle
2010-06-30 08:55:09 UTC
We don't "deny" it per say, but we do go against the scare tactics of those that follow the global warming concept because it has become a political propaganda fueler. Climate-gate, as someone said.

The truth is, the Earth has had periods of Global warming and periods of mini - ice ages over the millenia. Scientists have taken earth and ice cores and analyzed the minerals, creatures, bacteria, decayed matter, and sediment color changes to prove the climate and surface changes all over the world.

Here is a site with a graph that will show specific data of those climate fluctuations.

http://www.longrangeweather.com/600bc.htm

You can view the data from as far as 600 BC to up to 2000 AD. The most recent recorded climate "mini ice age" type weather was the winter of 1834 to the spring of 1844.



On this chart, it goes back to 2000 bc to current day. We had a massive global warming shock where it hit it's peak around 1100 BC. This is when the nile was showing changes and drying up causing lush areas to turn to desert, ocean fronts started to recede, and we can see these changes in the Sahara and the desert areas the border the middle east where they have discovered large ocean mammal bones that have been covered up over the centuries until recently.

http://www.longrangeweather.com/global_temperatures.htm



All we are saying is - yes, we agree that humans do effect our environment and climate but not to the extent that others claim we have. Temperature fluctuations are normal and pretty much cyclable. In the last 300 yrs in the area we live, you will see these changes every 25 yrs to every 3 to 35 yrs. Every 25, dry heat, low rain fall, drought, and maybe a hurricane or two that can last about 4 to 5 yrs. Every 32-35 yrs, Wet late summers and falls, extremely cold winters, ice and snow early in the season, followed by partial flooding and additional wet seasons that last 3 to 5 yrs with cooler temps. Then things level out for a few years.



So, based on "education" I feel that I was not lacking in the understanding of science and geology.
anonymous
2010-06-30 08:34:37 UTC
I think it has quite a bit more to do with media and information outlets than it does education since most people old enough to have political opinions on global warming are too old to have been in school when the concept first became prominent.
anonymous
2010-06-30 08:35:04 UTC
Hmmm 139 IQ two degree's later and i still wont support a group that just 40 years ago wanted to intentionally flood the atmosphere with CO2 in order to counter act the global cooling. I would say go ahead and get ready for some heat over the next 11 years since the sun should be increasingly active with sun spots. Then again we cant predict the weather so why worry about predicting a giant ball of hydrogen. I do support people that want to go out and plant trees/plants to create more oxygen though, so all your global warming activists shut up and plant a damn tree already.
Wicked Wanda
2010-06-30 08:41:42 UTC
It says that those grown men and women fail to realize that times change. Science is an ever changing field. It's not like History that is based on actual happenings.
J B
2010-06-30 08:38:49 UTC
It proves that our public education system still has not been able to completely brainwash people into believing pseudo-science. Global warming (man-made) is a fraud, and those who believe that humans caused "climate change" are ignorant shlemmings. (that's sheep + lemmings for libs out there). There is NO scientific concensus.
Dave
2010-06-30 08:37:51 UTC
That there are some who are strong and confident enough to think for themselves. Last a heard, global warming is a theory. The weather fluctuates on its own with no direct link to the amount of CO2 in the air.



Please take a look at the link I provided.



I think people generally just like to worry about things. It makes them feel responsible.



I don't know about you, but we just had one of the coldest winters in 10 years.
Osiris' Goldmember
2010-06-30 08:32:13 UTC
The public education system can only do so much... until right wing media propaganda eventually tries to convince folks that those teachers and professors are a bunch of pinko commies who want to ruin industry as a whole. It takes will power and skepticism to deflect such propaganda.
anonymous
2010-06-30 08:30:51 UTC
Jared, scientists ALL OVER THE WORLD question it too.



Was the science "settled" when they told us the Earth was flat too?
fatboy
2010-06-30 08:34:54 UTC
Global "warming" is a natural occurring phenomena, it's been happening for since the Earth was formed. What does that have to do with our public education system?
myrrdin 810
2010-06-30 08:38:54 UTC
these are the folks who withdrew their children from science classes because they didn't want their kids to learn about the theory of the heliocentric solar system - a theory that's been accepted as fact almost since the days of Gallileo - because it contradicts what their buy-bulls tell them.
Morey000
2010-06-30 08:33:35 UTC
Sadcat is incorrect. it's only about 43% of the population that believes the earth is 10,000 years old. As soon as that % gets to 51%, it's pretty much all over for america.



And the believers are trying pretty danged hard to make that happen.
Lkn4trouble
2010-06-30 08:31:51 UTC
It says thank god there are still people educated enough not to be sucked into some gullible fictitious bullshxt that was fabricated to extract large amounts of cash from the American taxpayer.
anonymous
2010-06-30 08:34:37 UTC
That it's not failing completely..



Only a total idiot will buy into the global warming farce that's being sold to the public. It's Al Gore's variant of the ShamWOW commercial.



It's flashy and loud.. and when you get to the point where it's actually supposed to do something.. it just doesn't work out the way they said it would.
Connie
2010-06-30 08:37:41 UTC
What does it say when people believe a big bunch of Fabricated, admittedly, "scientific" reports, submitted by TOP RESEARCHERS.??? I go by scientific evidence (or in this case, total lack of!!!!!).
Doin
2010-06-30 08:32:06 UTC
Your goin to get blasted by this comment.



when 10,000 say that global warming is an issue. They will rebuttal with 5 or 6 different sites with a couple scientist saying it isn't happening. Call that fact and deny everything else.



Republicans are ignorant to what they want to hear. Especially when it comes to money, money to them is more then what the world is.
Philip McCrevice
2010-06-30 08:31:38 UTC
It's got nothing to do with public education.



We deny HUMANS are to blame for global warming.



I will admit that the average temperature of the Earth is going ever so slightly up over the century.



So is the temperature of Mars.
Sadcat
2010-06-30 08:30:33 UTC
Shoot, about 60% of the U.S. adult population believes that the earth is 10,000 years old. I believe in global warming, but to me, the creationist belief is far stupider.
anonymous
2010-06-30 08:35:15 UTC
I guess you never heard of Climategate. And no, its not a consensus. Global warming/climate change is natural and no way can humans cause it



http://www.delcotimes.com/articles/2010/01/16/opinion/doc4b5136a189044351761993.txt

http://www.globalwarminghoax.com/comment.php?comment.news.123

http://www.middlebury.net/op-ed/global-warming-01.html

http://seoblackhat.com/2007/03/04/global-warming-on-mars-pluto-triton-and-jupiter/





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Io-Tb7vTamY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsjRn5iQRZA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvcuylMrkXk
ahandle101
2010-06-30 08:35:43 UTC
Oh please. Our public education system sucked long before "global warming" became the terminology.
Dave87gn
2010-06-30 08:34:01 UTC
republicans wouldnt deny global warming unless there was a good motive. Fox created that motive by politicizing the issue, making it left v right and putting Al Gore up there are the person to hate



so righties immediatly knew which side they wanted to be on...the NON-left side
?
2010-06-30 08:30:59 UTC
That they do a better job of teaching students to think critically than we give them credit for..


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