United States involvement in peace-keeping mission in Bosnia: Can you explain our long-term success results?

Question

And please don't refer to the icon of Bill Clinton (Kosovo/Albania)

I am very close to a person who was involved militarily in Bosnia and Kosovo and I would like other military opinions. Thanks.

Answer 1

Interesting opinions here. I will only talk about the American part of the Operation Joint Endevavor/joint Forge Bosnia peacekeeping. Kosovo was almost the same thing with the Serbs on one side and the Albania, Kosovo and other ethnic groups on the other. The debate of who was right or wrong will cause a conflict here.



I do know the war was on-going from 1991 to till December 1995 when NATO when in with ground troops (we sent in the 3/325th parachute infantry battalion from Vincenzia to Tuzla). We bombed the Serb positions that summer after the Srebencia massacre. I know damn well the US did not cause the Slovenians, Croats and Bosnians to just up and separate for the Yugoslavia government ran by the Serbs regardless what the other poster says. This would only had happened if they were using our 1776 model. So otherwise show me proof WE set-up a festering situation. We hadn't been in the area since WW2 and that was to euip the partisans to fight the Nazis and their allies. Hell, I know people stationed in Germany or Italy who would go to Croatia and vacation on the beaches back before 1991/1992.



I was stationed in Germany so we followed all the time. I had friends from all factions there too. I went to Hungary, Bosnia and Croatia in Jan 96 to the end of the year and again in 97. Almost 1 1/2 years of my life. I was with an airborne recon unit and saw a lot of the area. I remember seeing, living with, protecting and talking to the people in Bosnia, Croatia, and Serbia. I also visited Slovenia on my own in 98. I tried to get all the views, from all the people.



I saw mainly ethnic hatred going back centuries and only stopping when NATO got involved after the old Yugoslavia started to disintegrate (after Tito died) and it looked another WW1 might start up and spill over into the neighboring countries. I have seen the rape camps and patrolled Serbencia while we helped uncover mass graves of thousands, and I mean thousands of dead Bosnian men from the summer before that the Serbs killed. That shyt sticks with you forever. I know the Serbian folks didn't like us and saw as helping the Bosnians, Bosinian-Croats, maytbe the Bosnian-Serbs orBosniaks,Croats (who changed sides a few times in the war before NATO got invovled and it was still a UN thing) and all the other elements.

They seemed to try to regain and stabilize the region and enforce the "old" Yugoslavia again. Since we had a civil war in our own country, I can understand the feelings. I didn't understand the brutally on ALL sides displayed. Some more than others, but all wars are horrible in my opinion and turn people in roadkill and destroy property and lives. No matter how "noble" the cause.



All in all, I know now that all the regions have autonomy and each one can decide for themselves. Hopefully the bigger and more powerful (but no more important) countries in Europe will let them operate on the same playing field. Our sacrifices seem to matter only to who had the most to gain from freedom of oppression. Thing is... it's all tribal, no different whether it was in N. Ireland, Rwanda and Sri Lanka. It is in Dafur, Congo, Palestine, Nepal and even in most major cities around the world now. All of it tribal and the hatred runs deep no matter the color, gender, religion and ethnic group.



Human beings disappoint me when we disagree about people's lives and freedom to express themselves openly.



Edit: To aeiou_i . I am not a politician nor I am posting link after link of what others say. You can blame Germany for everything including the start of WW1 to WW3. They are easy targets now. No like oh say...Russia and others. I am only talking about my opinion and what I SAW on the ground in Bosnia. Not the whys and hows.There are many things I could talk about, but they violate OPSEC and would shame you and all the other factions who fought down there. All sides. No one was innocnet before 1995.



Well I see your throwing up a lot of stats and facts. I am talking being on the ground and seeing things. Not just stating my opinion because I lived of the losing side of the conflict. You seem to just want to place all the blame on the U.S. Fine. Remember our being bullies in WW2 when Nazis were stomping through Europe and even staying after the Cold War to face the Russians. We should leave you Europeans to solve your own problems, but we have too many Americans who come from there and our ties are too strong. Plus everythng spills over to the rest of the world i.e 400 years of worldwide colonialism, WW1 and then later WW2 and the Cold War.



You talked about some Soldiers who contacted you? Yeah right. Were they generals or colonels? Army Delta Force/Navy SEALs in Sarajevo conducting counter-sniper ops? CIA operatives? Are they made up by you? Show us some links, give names. Stop with the war crimes crap (when the NATO bombs were dropped) because there are some top Serbs (Slobodan Milošević for example) in Den Haag facing trials who helped kill more than we every did. And stop doing the conspiracy theories that we caused 9/11 too.That's the weakest shyt I have every heard and you seem to want to vent on some other than the topic. WW1 leftovers caused WW2 and it started all started when a certain Archduke got shot where? You want to talk about "domino effect."



You want to bash America, post a new topic then and see the reactions. I know not everyone was a Serb in the ruling party. I worked side by side with the Russians in Bosnia and watched the same units rush to Kosovo in 1999 to the airport. I saw the shifting alliances, who was supporting who and we joked that we will get blamed for everything. Which seems to be the case now. I knew several JNA paratroopers and we talked like grown men about what happen. Professional courtsey.



Aside for all this you speak of: there is no link from some woman who can tell me what I SAW in Srebrenica. Not one. I know all those thousands of men didn't just kill themselves. I have pictures, video and dozens of comrades who were there with me. Yuo ever smelled 7000+ mostly unarmed dead men after they thawed out in the spring in the hills around Srebrencia? No. Well don't tell me it was an accident and try to defend Serb actions. I know all sides conducted war crimes, but you don't justify bad behavior with that. Not with a link from some other person to "explain" to me what we saw. You can refute everything I said to jusitfy your points. I get that all the the time when I strike a nerve, but I am not going to argue with you. I had a Serbian girlfriend who lived in Belgrade till 2001. She said almost everything you said. She was bitter and so was her family at us. I told her next time it's all your problem. We will leave if the Western European governments want us gone and stop acting like it's the 1400s. We did it in France in 1966 and Saudi Arabia in the 90s. You want to keep the Muslims, Solvenes and Croats "in check" in Bosnia and other states, go for it. Same with Kosovo. This is the same yadda yadda I heard older West Germans say who ***** about high taxes and wish the "wall" was back up. You totally ignored in your blame of the US, all the internal issues Yugoslavia had in the 1900s till Tito died. Especially in the 1920s. There is no way you can blame us for that build up to war (which finally happened in the 90s. We might as well blame the Slavs for gang violence in America and make up some links.)



Bottom line I stated MY opinion not links. I was on the ground there for a year and a half. I was not and will not post links from others concerning the question asked. I have proof of the evil people do. I never took sides and like I said: it was a civil war. No matter the reasons why. There was brutal civil war and you seem to want to justify why it was fought, but blame the U.S. for starting it and not giving credit for finishing it. Same with the WW2 argument. Yeah all we did is bomb stuff and if I recall the majority of the help came from this large communist country to the east. What was the name again? And what happened after WW2 with this large ally? Us Americans are so evil in your eyes, yet you overlook EVERYTHING the Soviets did and have done to you, us and to their own people from the 1920s to 2008.



This is why wars continue because of somebody's not seeing the light, admitting when they were wrong or not being tolerant of someone else. Maybe a Bosnian, Slovene, Macedonian, Albanian or Croatian can explain what happen like you did from there point of view.



I respect your opinion though, glad to see one that wasn't rant and you showed there is nothing wrong with healthy conversation.



Have a nice day.

Answer 2

The answer is simple, America enjoys a quality of life and freedoms no other country can claim. As a result, in the last 300 years or so, the best of Europe, Asia, Africa and even Australia moved here. What Europe, Asia and Africa was left with were those who were too lazy, too stupid or too comfortable to move, take a risk and reap the reward ( Notice I didn't include the Aussies, they are more like us than I think they want to admit). Yes, France And several other countries have done some great things, but not since the 1800's could they compare to us, even BEFORE we became a country, the American Colonists were some of the most hard working, wealthiest and smartest in the world!!!! From the beginning we tried to eliminate the barriers that other nations put on their people. That's why their is no "LORD MAYOR Of WASHINGTON D.C" or Duke of Massachusetts. We have always believed that birth is not what determines where your place in society should be. For example, had Einenstien not moved to the US, his own country would have killed him, just because of his ancestry. Here, he was able to use that mind to help free his own people and thrive in a culture of openess, even after the war, he remained here. The other interesting thing is that we are a gentle people, we fed the world after both world wars, and have done more for the poor and downtrodden with our power and wealth than ANY Empire in history. No other nation on earth can truthfully claim that

Answer 3

I have relatives and friends in the Republic of Srpska, and I will not say Bosnia because the US helped the muslims run out my Serbian brothers and sisters and put US soldiers in harms way in the process. By the way it was not a peace keeping mission but a sign of American relations with the muslim Arab world all in the name of petroleum and dollar signs.



My question is do the Bosnian muslims actually think the Clinton regime actually cared about them and their children? They sure did not care about innocent Bosnian Serbs and their children. By the way, Clinton should be tried as a war criminal since he was not impeached for committing perjury and lying to the American people and the world.



As for long term success, it is just a band aid on a religious and age old problem that has existed in the Balkans much longer than the US has been a sovereign nation.

Answer 4

When my ex-husband was deployed there, US troops were essentially babysitters, keeping the Bosnians and Serbs from fighting.



When he'd call, always in the background were sounds of mortars and old bombs being destroyed.



Our troops were there as neutral parties, but they weren't welcomed or liked by either side.

Made it seem the intervention was a waste or our time and tax dollars.

Answer 5

Hell I don't know maybe we need to double our troop's pay. One paycheck for soldiering and one for acting as a police officer.



If it was my choice to make I'd pull our troops out of half the places they're currently assigned as patrolmen / women.

Answer 6

We made a problem there, then pretended to fix it. The whole thing was completely fake.

Answer 7

IM NOT SURE. OBVIOUSLY IT DIDNT HELP MY LIFE.

Answer 8

I am from Serbia.



Bosnia:



USA pushed Bosnia into war. The Bosnian Muslim leader Alija Izetbegovic who was a radical Islamist with deep connections with Iran, was given green light to create war leaning on NATO intervention. The result of all that are 100,000 deaths and 5 tons of depleted uranium. Bosnia is an unstable country which will split as soon as the West loosens the grip upon Serbs. What Serbs want is self-determination and not to be under Bosnian Muslim political control.



Kosovo:



USA created the humanitarian catastrophe in Kosovo, backing the independence movement. International law and practice was subdued to political criminality. 5000 people lost their lives under the bombing and 15 tons of depleted uranium was thrown.



Long term success:



a) Showing that NATO is above international law and practice. Intimidation of UN members, creation of political courts of justice which serve as sacrifice altars of invincibility.



b) Getting rid of (20) tons of depleted uranium.



c) Destruction of Serbia and destabilization of the region for future manipulation.



d) Creation of Camp Bondsteel.



e) Military experience and checking of weaponry.



Edit:



Your Freedom Is Futile:



Seeing NATO soldiers as neutral babysitters is absolute ignorance. NATO and much of UN was the direct Serb enemy. At least you could show the minimum intelligence to figure where and why you husband was sent. Your children deserve to know the truth.



Check out this book written by an American professor of strategy at the Naval War College, and a former National Security Agency Balkan intelligence analyst:



http://www.amazon.com/Unholy-Terror-Bosnia-Al-Qaida-Global/dp/0760330034



http://www.balkanalysis.com/2008/03/22/unholy-terror-bosnia-al-qaida-and-the-rise-of-global-jihad-1/



http://musictravel.free.fr/political/political80.htm



Youtube on Kosovo:



http://www.youtube.com/user/mstreamm#p/f/50/jkHp_0SxTQQ



Noah Chomsky on Kosovo:



http://www.chomsky.info/articles/200005--.htm



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEhgwdJldeU



Edit:



Shock and Awe:



I do not have a problem showing who is right and who wrong. It is known that Izetbegovic retreated his signiature of the Jose Cutileiro peace plan, after visiting Zimmerman, which was the direct trigger of the Bosnian bloodshed. What you should tell us here is how CIA allowed the creation of the radical Islamic cells in Bosnia, which later lead to 9.11.



“I damn well the US did not cause…”



Yea, I can imagine what you people were told, but I also have been contacted by American soldiers who know much better.



Since you started only talking about the USA role in Bosnia, but jumped into saying that USA did not cause the Croats to separate from Yugoslavia, allow me to remind you of the USA involvement in Croatia:



http://emperors-clothes.com/news/croatvstorm.htm



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croatian_War_of_Independence



By the time of the separation of Yugoslavia, the top men in the government and army were not Serbs. Yugoslavia was not a country under Serbia. Serbia only had centralized political function due to its legacy in the creation of Yugoslavia. The Republics were federate. Just to add to the picture, Slovenia did not end up having "white industry" because they were smarter, but because such was the repartition of wealth after WW2, due to the potential attack of Soviet Union. The problem of Slovenia was sharing this given wealth with less developed regions. Of course, they saw themselves a better opportunity facing Westward.



The Srebrenica massacre:



http://www.counterpunch.org/johnstone10122005.html



“We hadn't been in the area since WW2 and that was to euip the partisans to fight the Nazis and their allies.”



??????? The partisans were being equiped by taking weapons from where ever they could, mostly captured from Italian and German weaponry. The American major role was the bombing of Belgrade by the end of WW2.



“…back centuries and only stopping when NATO got involved”



Yea, except that there wouldn’t have been war if you hadn’t pushed the radical Islamic SDA party into warring.



“I have seen the rape camps and patrolled Serbencia while we helped uncover mass graves of thousands, and I mean thousands of dead Bosnian men from the summer before that the Serbs killed.”



Go to my link of Diana Johnstone about Srebrenica. She can explain you what you saw there much better than you can see.



“Croats (who changed sides a few times in the war before…”



The book “Unholy Terror” tells about the relationship between Croats and Muslims.



“They seemed to try to regain and stabilize the region and enforce the "old" Yugoslavia again.”



No. Serbs wanted two things: to have the same self-determination Muslims were given and to nt be under Muslim political control. Serbs were interested in remaining in the same country with their motherland, since the borders “belonged to all the constitutional people of Yugoslavia and republic borders were only administrative”.



“I didn't understand the brutally on ALL sides displayed.”



Nothing can equalize the 20 tons of depleted uranium you threw and the brutal media manipulation with which you satanized my people. Face it, you people even give yourselves Pulitzer prizes for the best lie. The lie is what defined the voting attitude for the USA intervention. Ruder Fin compared Serbs to Nazi Germans, despite the historical fact of on what side were Bosnian Muslims (Albanians and Croats) in WW2 and who was the biggest German victim in WW2 Yugoslavia - who actually fought the Germans. Germany (politically and last militarily) and USA had the biggest role in the Yugoslav civil war. Simply said, Germany needed Serb blood to wake up, to fly those planes once again and smash the Slav. (Albanians are just collateral damage of that. You think your people care having thrown depleted uranium over Kosovo?)



To add to the picture of brutality, it is known that the Muslim elite sacrificed their own people in several occasions, to draw action against Serbs and Serbia: Markale, Vase Miskina, Srebrenica...



http://www.ex-yupress.com/intervju/intervju1.html



“Some more than others…”



Wars have a qualitative dimension. To create a war in a CNN office or RISK table is as equally destructive as shooting your next door neighbor to save own life. The difference is that CNN journalists are highly educated professionals who "produce information" being Information a science of manipulating the mind, while those who show animal behavior on the battlefield (murder, rape, revenge, fear, hatred, stress), in extreme human conditions, are ordinary people; peasants, carpenters, physical workers, people who still remember the horrors of WW2. Upon that, those who control the media are beyond international justice and their activity does not go under "agitating war" (of which certain Serbs are being accused at Hague).



“I know now that all the regions have autonomy and each one can decide for themselves.”



No, Serbs are not allowed that. The whole idea was the destruction of a potentially strong Yugoslavia.



“freedom of oppression”



You seem to equalize that with “war for independence”.



“Thing is... it's all tribal,”



No. It all comes form political criminality; violation of international laws, by seeing yourself above it. The saddest thing is that the bloodshed could have been avoided, if Germany had wanted so. As much as Germany is a global political force of unity, you are right that Germans have a tribal sense of having it under their control. Germany is the strongest unified tribe in Europe and "mini EU" was the necessary sacrifice of that on the altar of invincibility.



Whip Cream on Cake



I just thought this is an opportunity for me to add just three more links:



International Justice under NATO:



http://www.youtube.com/user/mstreamm#p/f/19/JOre-D5W4rg



Organ Donation under NATO:



http://www.youtube.com/user/mstreamm#p/f/22/i3x0zY_aeaU



Cancer under NATO:



http://www.youtube.com/user/mstreamm#p/f/9/USYnPI_mUng